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further_local_discussion_about_the_anthropocentric_jungle [2010-02-01 11:23] – 86.95.48.238further_local_discussion_about_the_anthropocentric_jungle [2010-02-01 14:17] (current) – theunkarelse
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 **in my opinion [[Ecosystem_gardening]] is much less anthropocentric than suggested here and has nothing to do with growing crops.** **in my opinion [[Ecosystem_gardening]] is much less anthropocentric than suggested here and has nothing to do with growing crops.**
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 I am talking here specific about the Amazon and even though it is not orthodoxy yet, the long-lived idea that the Amazon is 'virgin' and pristine is being replaced with a view of the Amazon as a product of human history. This includes the native people who live from it but also the forest itself. I will make it myself easy here and just refer you to [[http://books.google.com/books?id=XnELAAAAYAAJ]] by Charles Mann which contains the best overview in print and cannot be recommended enough.  I am talking here specific about the Amazon and even though it is not orthodoxy yet, the long-lived idea that the Amazon is 'virgin' and pristine is being replaced with a view of the Amazon as a product of human history. This includes the native people who live from it but also the forest itself. I will make it myself easy here and just refer you to [[http://books.google.com/books?id=XnELAAAAYAAJ]] by Charles Mann which contains the best overview in print and cannot be recommended enough. 
 What it breaks down is the hard distinction between gardening and foraging: foraging becomes, to a certain degree, time-lapse gardening.  What it breaks down is the hard distinction between gardening and foraging: foraging becomes, to a certain degree, time-lapse gardening. 
 +The [[Ecosystem_gardening]] page as it stand now is not really containing what it says. 
  
 **The tribals we met in India, living in stone-age conditions, had little knowledge about plants beyond their use.** **The tribals we met in India, living in stone-age conditions, had little knowledge about plants beyond their use.**
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 +** I'd like to add that research done by Willie Smits on Borneo has shown Orang-utans to use pruning and weeding and sowing. **
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 +Ah! Just as language is part of primate evolution, so might be species cultivation. Can I point out another interesting (Dutch) researcher: Marc van Roosmalen: [[http://socialfiction.org/?tag=roosmalen]] his book contains a fascinating explanation on how to learn to survive in a tropical forest.
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 +====== Theun: ======
 +//Spotting these grey areas between gardening and foraging or between pristine 'natural' forests and human inhabited forests, is useful and clears up the discussion. Thanks for posting your views and for adding the research. Obviously I have very little knowledge about the Amazon and just base my remarks on limited personal experience in the forest of the Western Ghat mountains in Kerala. This type of 'field-research' is of course deeply subjective, but can be a useful addition to less direct research methods and your first entries, made me a bit suspicious about that at first. I'll sniff through the research you added and I'm sure it will increase my knowledge of these topics.//
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