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- | an [[audio transcription]] of an interview for open house 20120405 | + | === Bart Vandeput / Bartaku Interview === |
- | Woman: What’s your name? | + | an [[audio transcription]] of an interview for open house on 201204[?] for an edit history see: [[interview_bartaku_open_house? |
- | Bart Vandeput: My official name is Bart Vandeput. There is another identity which is called Bartaku and that’s more the artistic compound of Bart Vandeput. | + | |
- | Woman: And how old are you? | + | **Woman**: What' |
- | Bart: I guess this is 41, I’m pretty sure it’s 41 yes. | + | **Bart Vandeput**:My official name is Bart Vandeput. There is another identity which is called Bartaku and that's more the artistic compound of Bart Vandeput. |
- | Woman: Where were you born? | + | **Woman:** And how old are you? \\ |
- | Bart: In a famous city called Hasselt. | + | **Bart:** I guess this is 41, I m pretty sure it's 41 yes. |
- | Woman: In Belgium. | + | **Woman:** Where were you born? \\ |
- | Bart: | + | **Bart:** In a famous city called Hasselt. |
- | Woman: And where do you live now. | + | **Woman:** In Belgium. \\ |
- | Bart: | + | **Bart:** In the east of Belgium. |
- | Woman: Is there other places | + | **Woman:** And where do you live now. \\ |
- | Bart: I lived for a while in Leuven and besides that for the last 15, 16 years I have been living in Brussels, mainly on the hills anti-clockwise from Anderlecht to Schaerbeek. | + | **Bart:** In Brussels. Schaerbeek. |
- | Woman: Where do you work? | + | **Woman:** Is there other places |
- | Bart: | + | **Bart:** I lived for a while in Leuven |
- | Woman: Into what places? | + | **Woman:** Where do you work? \\ |
- | Bart: Well, last year it was predominately | + | **Bart:** I work a lot at home. I work sometimes |
- | Woman: And that’s related to your work? | + | **Woman:** Into what places? \\ |
+ | **Bart: | ||
- | Bart: It’s all functional time. | + | **Woman: |
+ | **Bart:** It's all functional time. | ||
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** Okay, we ll come back to that later. So how long have you been in Brussels?\\ |
- | Bart: Well, living in Brussels 15, 16 years, yes. | + | **Bart:** Well, living in Brussels 15, 16 years, yes. |
- | Woman: And what brought you to Brussels? | + | **Woman:** And what brought you to Brussels?\\ |
- | Bart: I started working here for the [?] And then I wanted to move already for a long time from Leuven to Brussels. | + | **Bart:** I started working here for the [?] And then I wanted to move already for a long time from Leuven to Brussels. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** Why?\\ |
- | Bart: Yeah, I think in Leuven after a couple of months you already know what is there and Brussels was just much more attractive and there was much more contrast and more diversity in many ways and it felt normal, so… | + | **Bart:** Yeah, I think in Leuven after a couple of months you already know what is there and Brussels was just much more attractive and there was much more contrast and more diversity in many ways and it felt normal, so |
- | Woman: Can you remember what your expectations were moving to Brussels? | + | **Woman:** Can you remember what your expectations were moving to Brussels?\\ |
- | Bart: | + | **Bart:** Expectations is not so much, I think, part of my being. I move rather intuitively, |
- | Woman: And can you describe Brussels, what characteristic… | + | **Woman:** And can you describe Brussels, what characteristic |
- | Bart: Well the thing that I miss the most when I’m not in Brussels is the diversity in terms of color, especially in terms of sounds, meaning also language. I miss the cobblestones and the subtle hills. I miss the Source of Love, the natural spring that is in the Park, the south park that did not get a mention in Schaerbeek. And I miss the chaos, the complexity and I tend to miss, when I’m not in Europe any more, I tend to miss the seasons and I tend to start missing also the love/hate relationship that I have with Brussels and I especially miss the fact that in Brussels everybody is not really from Brussels. | + | **Bart:** Well the thing that I miss the most when I m not in Brussels is the diversity in terms of color, especially in terms of sounds, meaning also language. I miss the cobblestones and the subtle hills. I miss the Source of Love, the natural spring that is in the Park, the south park that did not get a mention in Schaerbeek. And I miss the chaos, the complexity and I tend to miss, when I m not in Europe any more, I tend to miss the seasons and I tend to start missing also the love/hate relationship that I have with Brussels and I especially miss the fact that in Brussels everybody is not really from Brussels. |
- | Woman: Can you describe the love/hate relationship a bit more? | + | **Woman:** Can you describe the love/hate relationship a bit more?\\ |
- | Bart: Well it’s such a complex city which is still on a human scale but has all the complexity of a melting pot. There are many issues, of course, in people living together with various interests and so, yeah. The cultural differences also lead to different expectations and different behaviors so, yeah, you have to deal with that and the fact, of course, that everybody knows the city has been managed in a non-city way for a very long time. So it’s more like a stitching together of villages, more than a cosmopolitan policy. So yeah, this has its consequences. Some, if you want to ask me what is more in the negative, then the whole pollution and traffic related issues are for me fundamental pain in the ass. Yeah, so the thing I like the most I just mentioned already. | + | **Bart:** Well it's such a complex city which is still on a human scale but has all the complexity of a melting pot. There are many issues, of course, in people living together with various interests and so, yeah. The cultural differences also lead to different expectations and different behaviors so, yeah, you have to deal with that and the fact, of course, that everybody knows the city has been managed in a non-city way for a very long time. So it's more like a stitching together of villages, more than a cosmopolitan policy. So yeah, this has its consequences. Some, if you want to ask me what is more in the negative, then the whole pollution and traffic related issues are for me fundamental pain in the ass. Yeah, so the thing I like the most I just mentioned already. |
- | Woman: How would you define your artistic practice or profession? | + | **Woman:** How would you define your artistic practice or profession?\\ |
- | Bart: I think it has benefitted a lot from the artistic diversity as well in Brussels. | + | **Bart:** I think it has benefitted a lot from the artistic diversity as well in Brussels. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** Which part of academia, like, what disciplines were you? \\ |
- | Bart: Well, I was part of the Social Sciences then went on into communication science, yeah. So then yeah, came back and, of course, had to do a job because the money was gone, blah, blah. But then went to Spain for three months, focussing on the south of Spain, where the light is the most beautiful and the smell is the most beautiful.I was sitting on rooftop there to be able to make the transition from Latin America to, and especially outdoors life, to come back to Europe. And there I started writing and that’s actually where the installation was born and the fascination for the first time for communication with these threats the awareness was making them of the energy in the oldest medium which is threats and why this came. I think that this is where the fascination for energy in general started growing and the combination of the defamation. | + | **Bart:** Well, I was part of the Social Sciences then went on into communication science, yeah. So then yeah, came back and, of course, had to do a job because the money was gone, blah, blah. But then went to Spain for three months, focussing on the south of Spain, where the light is the most beautiful and the smell is the most beautiful.I was sitting on rooftop there to be able to make the transition from Latin America to, and especially outdoors life, to come back to Europe. And there I started writing and that's actually where the installation was born and the fascination for the first time for communication with these threats the awareness was making them of the energy in the oldest medium which is threats and why this came. I think that this is where the fascination for energy in general started growing and the combination of the defamation. |
So then after that this installation went and was made and [?] Went to textiles [?] but it was about electronics and textiles was already difficult to categorize it. It went to the polytechnic [?] University to a, what was it, a generative [sounds like] arts thing and so for me this was all kind of a new, so it was a good learning experience. After that I went into more deeply connecting advanced interactive software with the medium threat using drills to explore the aesthetic of the energy behavior and I knew it was in position of people in front of screen with cameras to see in real time how you could make patterns from the moment that the rope would snap due to being over-energized by drills. | So then after that this installation went and was made and [?] Went to textiles [?] but it was about electronics and textiles was already difficult to categorize it. It went to the polytechnic [?] University to a, what was it, a generative [sounds like] arts thing and so for me this was all kind of a new, so it was a good learning experience. After that I went into more deeply connecting advanced interactive software with the medium threat using drills to explore the aesthetic of the energy behavior and I knew it was in position of people in front of screen with cameras to see in real time how you could make patterns from the moment that the rope would snap due to being over-energized by drills. | ||
- | So become smoke [?] Furmans [sounds like] at the amount and started doing workshops, work labs, learning new technologies this is how I got into contact with the X-med-K organizations which was then okno iMAL form arduino | + | So become smoke [?] Furmans [sounds like] at the amount and started doing workshops, work labs, learning new technologies this is how I got into contact with the X-med-K organizations which was then okno, iMAL, foam nadine |
- | Woman: Mm hmm. | + | **Woman:** Mm hmm.\\ |
- | Bart: And they can also not do this in a short moment. Really they have to become very aware of a bee vex [sounds like] scan because that gives the purest carbon. There are many elements that you takes time and patience that you cannot shock like you can in a workshop and extract all the notes. No, you really have to work together and gradually build up. And when you’re done, you can I think understand why I’m doing this. | + | **Bart:** And they can also not do this in a short moment. Really they have to become very aware of a bee vex [sounds like] scan because that gives the purest carbon. There are many elements that you takes time and patience that you cannot shock like you can in a workshop and extract all the notes. No, you really have to work together and gradually build up. And when you re done, you can I think understand why I m doing this. |
- | Woman: How do you explain what you do to a random person in the street who asks you ‘What do you do?‘ | + | Woman: How do you explain what you do to a random person in the street who asks you What do you do? |
- | Bart: I think I would have to invite these people to have a coffee with me and to tell them what I’m telling you. | + | |
- | Woman: If you don’t have the time? | + | Bart: |
- | Bart: If I don’t | + | |
- | Woman: And do you use the word ‘artist’ for instance? Do you say ‘I am an artist.’ | + | **Woman:** If you don t have the time?\\ |
- | Bart: Well, I’m afraid | + | **Bart:** If I don t have the time, yeah I get the picture. Well then I basically say that I am fascinated |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** And do you use the word artist |
- | Bart: | + | **Bart:** Well, |
- | Woman: In what way? | + | **Woman:** And you make a living now from what you do?\\ |
- | Bart: In the way that I have unemployment money. | + | **Bart:** I can make a living only because of the fact that some part of my income is being taken care of off society. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** In what way?\\ |
- | Bart: I never managed to get to benefit from this, how do you say this, beneficial agreement because it’s not to, again, it doesn’t exist as I have to repeat from people who know better than I do. But no, I do not benefit from that and that is because | + | **Bart:** In the way that I have unemployment |
- | Woman: And if you said before that you can do what you do because you benefit | + | **Woman:** In the good sense or what? \\ |
- | Bart: Mmm. | + | **Bart:** I never managed to get to benefit from this, how do you say this, beneficial agreement because it's not to, again, it doesn t exist as I have to repeat from people who know better than I do. But no, I do not benefit from that and that is because |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** And if you said before |
- | Bart: Yeah, that’s the basic, the basic system. Yeah, I have not so much per month but on a global level of course it’s a lot but in our society this is, it’s, | + | **Bart: |
- | Woman: And what is your main source of income now, if you compare… | + | **Woman:** System, that's just the basic.\\ |
- | Bart: Well the main source | + | **Bart:** Yeah, that' |
- | Woman: And if you say that in Scandinavia they do pay for exhibitions? | + | **Woman:** And what is your main source of income now, if you compare \\ |
- | Bart: Yes. | + | **Bart:** Well the main source of income is because well, these income things are very irregular and they depend on many things, so the main source of income is the monthly support from our community, the unemployment money, which is extremely contradictory, |
- | Woman: Do you mean to say that here they don’t? | + | **Woman:** And if you say that in Scandinavia |
- | Bart: No, but in some other countries, more south I mean it depends where in Europe you are again, yeah, they have just not so many possibilities. I haven’t had the chance yet to do really like exhibition in Belgium. They tend to be I think a little bit less like interest in what I’m doing here. So, unfortunately, | + | **Bart:** Yes. |
- | Woman: How would you define your work? | + | **Woman:** Do you mean to say that here they don t?\\ |
- | Bart: For me, work is doing what you feel you cannot, not do. It’s an emanation. Actually | + | **Bart:** No, but in some other countries, more south I mean it depends where in Europe |
- | Woman: But all of them are work? | + | **Woman:** How would you define your work?\\ |
- | Bart: All of this is work, yeah it’s all part of it. The struggle is part of your work, having in the flow is part of the work and this whole and how you relate | + | **Bart:** For me, work is doing what you feel you cannot, not do. It's an emanation. Actually I trust most the thing that I do when I m not aware that I m working. These things I trust the most. There might be more I started collect may be more ugly or not perfect |
- | Woman: And how many hours a week do you work? | + | **Woman:** But all of them are work?\\ |
- | Bart: Phew. Never enough. | + | **Bart:** All of this is work, yeah it's all part of it. The struggle is part of your work, having in the flow is part of the work and this whole and how you relate to that. How you maintain centered and aware which is a quite complicated and energy consuming process. This is work. |
- | Woman: Another question related. What do you consider free time and what do you with it? | + | **Woman:** And how many hours a week do you work?\\ |
- | Bart: Free time for me is only time that is non-functional. That’s free time. | + | **Bart:** Phew. Never enough. |
- | Woman: And does it exist? | + | **Woman:** Another question related. What do you consider free time and what do you with it?\\ |
- | Bart: It exists yes. | + | **Bart:** Free time for me is only time that is non-functional. That's free time. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** And does it exist?\\ |
- | Bart: I can give an example. When I started I was working in Brussels somewhere nearby the Buss [sounds like], the stock market and I got quite impressed by the light quality | + | **Bart:** It exists yes. |
- | Woman: Is there other things | + | **Woman:** And how do you use it?\\ |
- | Bart: Well, there’s relationship time, family | + | **Bart:** I can give an example. When I started I was working in Brussels somewhere nearby the Buss [sounds like], the stock market and I got quite impressed by the light quality |
- | Woman: How did your spend your evenings in the last week, if you go back in time? | + | **Woman:** Is there other things |
- | Bart: Yeah. | + | **Bart:** Well, there' |
- | Woman: Can you tell me what you did in the evenings of the last week? | + | **Woman:** How |
- | Bart: Writing, watching documentaries, | + | **Bart:** Yeah. |
- | Woman: And yesterday, can you describe | + | **Woman:** Can |
- | Bart: Yesterday was Monday. Yes, there was, in the morning I had to write a report concerning my subsidy. Then I had a meeting about a co-housing project | + | **Bart:** Writing, watching documentaries, doing a set-up as a tryout for a collaboration and that was at FoAM for example and spending some time in a bar with colleagues, my girlfriend. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** And yesterday, can you describe the day of yesterday from morning to evening? Yesterday was a Monday.\\ |
- | Bart: | + | **Bart:** Yesterday was Monday. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** And it's school housing like if you re a private. \\ |
- | Bart: That was writing for several things. I also had to co-ordinate an application for the European Union also that’s a member of FoAM. This is, yeah, together with a couple | + | **Bart:** Yes, yes but we want to combine with all people we have to do some are performance artists. Another guy is artist, research based artist also. And we all have similar necessities so it will be about shared working space, experimental space, maybe a small gallery. It's all freeflow |
- | Woman: Can you explain a bit how FoAM works like, what’s | + | **Woman:** And that was writing for the .\\ |
- | Bart: Well, I think the reason why I got so close to them and got a bit to the corner | + | **Bart:** That was writing for several things. |
- | Woman: It’s | + | **Woman:** Can you explain |
- | Bart: It’s a context, yeah, absolutely | + | **Bart:** Well, I think the reason why I got so close to them and got a bit to the corner of the theme is because |
- | Woman: How can I understand it? Is is different artists, that can use it as a platform to develop their own practice . . . | + | **Woman:** It' |
- | Bart: Yes. | + | **Bart:** It' |
- | Woman: . . . and maybe some collaboration will possibly come out. | + | **Woman:** How can I understand it? Is is different artists, that can use it as a platform to develop their own practice |
- | Bart: Yes, indeed, yeah. And there is not so much goal orientation so you can really work very freely if you need support, if you need quality talk, you can ask for it and then we will put together some people so that you can have some relevant feedback. You can do presentations if you want. And then finally you can come with a proposal if you want and since FoAM is leading a couple of European projects that’s also quite interesting because it brings in new people. So that for me is quite interesting and motivating. | + | **Bart:** Yes. |
- | Woman: And do you sometimes work together with other people? You mentioned | + | **Woman:** . . . and maybe some collaboration will possibly come out.\\ |
- | Bart: | + | **Bart:** Yes, indeed, yeah. And there is not so much goal orientation so you can really work very freely if you need support, if you need quality talk, you can ask for it and then we will put together some people so that you can have some relevant feedback. You can do presentations if you want. And then finally you can come with a proposal if you want and since FoAM is leading a couple |
- | Woman: Is it always different projects? | + | **Woman:** And do you sometimes work together with other people? You mentioned some collectives.\\ |
- | Bart: It can shift within the project. Maybe I can have the lead in the beginning | + | **Bart:** Yes, I think I have about four heads that's like working as an individual person it is working as a member of FoAM. It is working with others where I have the lead and it is working with others where I am part of a bigger whole and I can reduce my ego to the minimum or bring in some parts of my knowledge |
- | Woman: And do the roles sometimes change like within the project like what different roles do you take up in projects that are collaboratively and how do they relate to the other people working in the same project? | + | **Woman:** Is it always different projects? |
+ | **Bart: | ||
+ | |||
+ | **Woman:** And do the roles sometimes change like within the project like what different roles do you take up in projects that are collaboratively and how do they relate to the other people working in the same project? | ||
Bart: Can you be more specific? | Bart: Can you be more specific? | ||
- | Woman: Is it mainly then a group of artists who work as artists on the same level let’s say or do you also have projects where there’s let’s say two artists, I’m using the labels. | + | Woman: Is it mainly then a group of artists who work as artists on the same level let's say or do you also have projects where there's let's say two artists, I m using the labels.\\ |
- | Bart: Mmm. Using labels. | + | **Bart:** Mmm. Using labels. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** Either a scientist and a more administrative person or \\ |
- | Bart: Yeah. Well for example the projects with FoAM involve people with really different capacities, backgrounds, | + | **Bart:** Yeah. Well for example the projects with FoAM involve people with really different capacities, backgrounds, |
- | Woman: And are the people you collaborate with always in the same geographical location? | + | **Woman:** And are the people you collaborate with always in the same geographical location? |
- | Bart: No, no. We use Skype a lot, for example and to give one sort of project I am in now with future textiles from Central St. Martin’s Academy of the University of London. I don’t always go to London, they don’t always come here I work also with the students so we have a working day next Friday where Skype will be on all the time. We use camera I will do some settings, we will show them, they will show what they are doing and we will try to see where we can take it from there. And then in April I will go there physically to work six days intensively with them, based on, whatever sank in after having seen what we have seen during the Skype session and sessions, because there are going to be more than that.And there is also, we have FoAM Nordica we have a couple of people there, there is FoAM Amsterdam, it’s a start-up of FoAM in Japan so yeah to communicate with these people we have to use Skype.And also in terms of projects, if you are involved in European projects, chairing meetings there are always people from God knows where. We have a project about tarot cards for some narrative project and these people now came over from Croatia. They stay with us for a week so there’s a lot of movement. | + | **Bart:** No, no. We use Skype a lot, for example and to give one sort of project I am in now with future textiles from Central St. Martin's Academy of the University of London. I don t always go to London, they don't always come here I work also with the students so we have a working day next Friday where Skype will be on all the time. We use camera I will do some settings, we will show them, they will show what they are doing and we will try to see where we can take it from there. And then in April I will go there physically to work six days intensively with them, based on, whatever sank in after having seen what we have seen during the Skype session and sessions, because there are going to be more than that. And there is also, we have FoAM Nordica we have a couple of people there, there is FoAM Amsterdam, it's a start-up of FoAM in Japan so yeah to communicate with these people we have to use Skype. And also in terms of projects, if you are involved in European projects, chairing meetings there are always people from God knows where. We have a project about tarot cards for some narrative project and these people now came over from Croatia. They stay with us for a week so there's a lot of movement. |
- | Woman: Do you have a manager? | + | **Woman:** Do you have a manager?\\ |
- | Bart: I’m looking for one. I’m really looking for somebody who can help me find ways, find good workflows for all these heads I have. Yeah, so, some type of agent would be very good because I have the feeling that there would be a lot of space for maximizing what I am doing. I have the feeling that maybe 60% of my time, and that’s a feeling so probably it’s not correct but I have the feeling that 60% of my time goes to admin and unfortunately I don’t have that talent.I can follow as many coaching trajectories but I just don’t have that talent and have no problems admitting it. I do my best but it’s very energy consuming. I need to eat more fruits and salads to be capable of doing one hour’s admin compared to, for example, my girlfriend who is an analytic talent.So, yeah, I need, it would be fantastic and also because I think I did eight work labs last year, most of them in Scandinavia but yeah, since it just happens and people contact me, I go there, I have to come back, I cannot make like the tour as in previous years and so that’s not so sustainable in terms of traveling. So I would like to have this balance and it’s all about this energy balance. I would like to tweak this in a way that it would be better. Actually I did my apprenticeship with Ulte Mavis [sounds like], so she, as a student I, my first job basically was as a student and I worked for Ulte Mavis and the agency that [?] So then I saw how fantastic it is when you have a whole team of people working for you and organizing everything. It will never get to that point because what I’m doing is not. And also probably I’m looking always. I tend to end up always on the edges of things, so until now not in the more commercial galleri-, and I’m not so interested in galleries work itself. But maybe I will be in the finish for sure and maybe, so yeah, any agent, any person who could help me with this would be fantastic. But then I have to see how to pay him and all that and maybe collaborate with other people, maybe within | + | **Bart:** I m looking for one. I m really looking for somebody who can help me find ways, find good workflows for all these heads I have. Yeah, so, some type of agent would be very good because I have the feeling that there would be a lot of space for maximizing what I am doing. I have the feeling that maybe 60% of my time, and that's a feeling so probably it's not correct but I have the feeling that 60% of my time goes to admin and unfortunately I don t have that talent.I can follow as many coaching trajectories but I just don t have that talent and have no problems admitting it. I do my best but it's very energy consuming. I need to eat more fruits and salads to be capable of doing one hour's admin compared to, for example, my girlfriend who is an analytic talent.So, yeah, I need, it would be fantastic and also because I think I did eight work labs last year, most of them in Scandinavia but yeah, since it just happens and people contact me, I go there, I have to come back, I cannot make like the tour as in previous years and so that's not so sustainable in terms of traveling. So I would like to have this balance and it's all about this energy balance. I would like to tweak this in a way that it would be better. Actually I did my apprenticeship with Ulte Mavis [sounds like], so she, as a student I, my first job basically was as a student and I worked for Ulte Mavis and the agency that [?] So then I saw how fantastic it is when you have a whole team of people working for you and organizing everything. It will never get to that point because what I m doing is not. And also probably I m looking always. I tend to end up always on the edges of things, so until now not in the more commercial galleri-, and I m not so interested in galleries work itself. But maybe I will be in the finish for sure and maybe, so yeah, any agent, any person who could help me with this would be fantastic. But then I have to see how to pay him and all that and maybe collaborate with other people, maybe within |
- | Woman: Is this an issue? Is this something that people talk about? | + | **Woman:** Is this an issue? Is this something that people talk about? |
- | Bart: Yes, yes. | + | **Bart:** Yes, yes. |
- | Woman: How to organize. | + | **Woman:** How to organize.\\ |
- | Bart: Yes, yes, absolutely. | + | **Bart:** Yes, yes, absolutely. |
- | Woman: Do you see interesting solutions? | + | **Woman:** Do you see interesting solutions?\\ |
- | Bart: I’ve seen a couple of-, in the last year I’ve seen a lot of models pass and I was quite surprised that in the end a very down to earth book keeper told me that, forget about the complexity of the other models and just do [?] | + | **Bart:** I ve seen a couple of-, in the last year I ve seen a lot of models pass and I was quite surprised that in the end a very down to earth book keeper told me that, forget about the complexity of the other models and just do [?] |
- | Woman: But it’s a-, | + | **Woman:** But it's a-,\\ |
- | Bart: I felt a bit like going back and being back at the starting point and maybe it’s just true. Maybe it’s but we still, yeah, are looking at other ways of going about it. So,… and you have to look at other ways also to find revenue because this new liberal wind and conservative wind in Europe, we will be hunted and haunted evermore, so we will have to be very resilient and very creative. And share experiences and yeah, stick the heads together and especially, not start doing the same thing as these new liberal and conservative parties are doing, right, when creating this discourse of us and them I am completely not interested in that. Not going to start shouting out the real artist, the not real artist. The dog guy. How can he be with this organization as well as an artist. Not interested. I think societies where they give the possibility of as many creative energies being able to pop out around the place are quality societies and I think as an artist we should be together in favor of that instead of being against this guy or that guy but then we end up again in the basic income discussion and the utopian aspect or the distopian, I don’t know. | + | **Bart:** I felt a bit like going back and being back at the starting point and maybe it's just true. Maybe it's but we still, yeah, are looking at other ways of going about it. So, and you have to look at other ways also to find revenue because this new liberal wind and conservative wind in Europe, we will be hunted and haunted evermore, so we will have to be very resilient and very creative. And share experiences and yeah, stick the heads together and especially, not start doing the same thing as these new liberal and conservative parties are doing, right, when creating this discourse of us and them I am completely not interested in that. Not going to start shouting out the real artist, the not real artist. The dog guy. How can he be with this organization as well as an artist. Not interested. I think societies where they give the possibility of as many creative energies being able to pop out around the place are quality societies and I think as an artist we should be together in favor of that instead of being against this guy or that guy but then we end up again in the basic income discussion and the utopian aspect or the distopian, I don t know. |
- | Woman: But this means you sort of see it around you, sometimes, this... | + | **Woman:** But this means you sort of see it around you, sometimes, this...\\ |
- | Bart: Yeah, yeah. Of course. Because now with this whole situation with now with the, how do you call it, the punishment institute for the unemployed people, who want us all to work to pay taxes, yeah, they are becoming a bit more harsh, again and then you see immediately some discourses and emails popping up against this or [?] And yeah, I think we need to get another perspective to frame this part of what we have to do. We have to transform these types of thinking. And you need very intelligent people to make this, very grounded and very practical and I don’t belong to that group unfortunately of very practical thinking people. | + | **Bart:** Yeah, yeah. Of course. Because now with this whole situation with now with the, how do you call it, the punishment institute for the unemployed people, who want us all to work to pay taxes, yeah, they are becoming a bit more harsh, again and then you see immediately some discourses and emails popping up against this or [?] And yeah, I think we need to get another perspective to frame this part of what we have to do. We have to transform these types of thinking. And you need very intelligent people to make this, very grounded and very practical and I don t belong to that group unfortunately of very practical thinking people. |
- | Woman: Are there aspects to your work that you would like to develop but which you feel that in the current context where work conditions weren’t possible? | + | **Woman:** Are there aspects to your work that you would like to develop but which you feel that in the current context where work conditions weren t possible?\\ |
- | Bart: They are not possible? | + | **Bart:** They are not possible? |
- | Woman: Mm hmm, that you would like to develop. | + | **Woman:** Mm hmm, that you would like to develop.\\ |
- | Bart: Yeah, there are, I have a couple of things that I feel that I need to do and there are some, there is now important, for me, important idea and very visual that I wanted to show somewhere and the first talks went into the direction but then the budget problem or one of the partners in the constellation feels that it’s not possible and then yeah, it didn’t happen, but then again maybe if I now look to the right maybe a new opportunity will come and so I keep the eyes open and yeah, if that’s the way it is. | + | **Bart:** Yeah, there are, I have a couple of things that I feel that I need to do and there are some, there is now important, for me, important idea and very visual that I wanted to show somewhere and the first talks went into the direction but then the budget problem or one of the partners in the constellation feels that it's not possible and then yeah, it didn t happen, but then again maybe if I now look to the right maybe a new opportunity will come and so I keep the eyes open and yeah, if that's the way it is. |
- | Woman: What could it mean today to be an established artist? | + | **Woman:** What could it mean today to be an established artist?\\ |
- | Bart: I think an established artist is an artist that doesn’t have to deal with administration at all, that doesn’t have to deal with communication at all and has and doesn’t have to think too much about how to get enough food on the table and doesn’t have to think too much on housing situation, I think that’s quite an established artist, yeah. | + | **Bart:** I think an established artist is an artist that doesn t have to deal with administration at all, that doesn t have to deal with communication at all and has and doesn t have to think too much about how to get enough food on the table and doesn t have to think too much on housing situation, I think that's quite an established artist, yeah. |
- | Woman: How do you disseminate your work? Do you know what audiences do you reach? | + | **Woman:** How do you disseminate your work? Do you know what audiences do you reach?\\ |
- | Bart: Yeah, I have multi-faced audience. Most often I am invited by arts venues. So, yeah, then you have people over who they find for you. So, yeah, I had scientific people from various backgrounds, | + | **Bart:** Yeah, I have multi-faced audience. Most often I am invited by arts venues. So, yeah, then you have people over who they find for you. So, yeah, I had scientific people from various backgrounds, |
- | Woman: What happened? | + | **Woman:** What happened?\\ |
- | Bart: Well, it was the first time I said I was standing upright and having an audience with so many ties and quite, white shirts, listening to me for 15 minutes and afterwards coming to me and talking to me and it was quite weird, yeah. And this venue, it was all super fancy, of course, in Valencia in Spain and it was about light technology, transformation of light into electrical energy, and it was all subterranean, | + | **Bart:** Well, it was the first time I said I was standing upright and having an audience with so many ties and quite, white shirts, listening to me for 15 minutes and afterwards coming to me and talking to me and it was quite weird, yeah. And this venue, it was all super fancy, of course, in Valencia in Spain and it was about light technology, transformation of light into electrical energy, and it was all subterranean, |
- | Woman: Do you retain ownership of your work once it is passed to other people or organizations? | + | **Woman:** Do you retain ownership of your work once it is passed to other people or organizations? |
- | Bart: Well, I apply creative comments so people can distribute my work as long as they refer to me and they are happy to modify it. So, I don’t get any revenue from any protected or copyright or who knows what and it’s a policy that we have at foAM basically. | + | **Bart:** Well, I apply creative comments so people can distribute my work as long as they refer to me and they are happy to modify it. So, I don t get any revenue from any protected or copyright or who knows what and it's a policy that we have at foAM basically. |
- | Woman: What type of credit or recognition do you value the most? | + | **Woman:** What type of credit or recognition do you value the most?\\ |
- | Bart: The most is from people, of course, that I admire myself. | + | **Bart:** The most is from people, of course, that I admire myself. |
- | Woman: And have you ever felt under-recognized, | + | **Woman:** And have you ever felt under-recognized, |
- | Bart: That also happened. I mean, the thing is it happened, for example, with this installation that I made in 2004, I had very good reactions on the first really big thing I made and I had an extremely good review one day and then another day when it was shown somewhere else there was somebody who didn’t like it. So, yeah, you observe both and you try not to become too enthusiastic because of one and you try to remain calm, also, with the other comment and just observe if there is anything in it that you resonate with and just use it in your next work. I mean, you have no choice. You come out, you have to come out, when you feel you have to come out, you have to come out! And then you are naked, huh? That’s for everybody it’s like that.The thing is, the type of work I make, and maybe other people who do more like art. research based, there is not so much of public discourse anymore. I have seen the last 10, 15 years how dialogue about arts in the normal media how this has shrank how it shrinked so especially for these type of practices, there’s not so much of a debate and that is not so good actually. | + | **Bart:** That also happened. I mean, the thing is it happened, for example, with this installation that I made in 2004, I had very good reactions on the first really big thing I made and I had an extremely good review one day and then another day when it was shown somewhere else there was somebody who didn t like it. So, yeah, you observe both and you try not to become too enthusiastic because of one and you try to remain calm, also, with the other comment and just observe if there is anything in it that you resonate with and just use it in your next work. I mean, you have no choice. You come out, you have to come out, when you feel you have to come out, you have to come out! And then you are naked, huh? That's for everybody it's like that. The thing is, the type of work I make, and maybe other people who do more like art. research based, there is not so much of public discourse anymore. I have seen the last 10, 15 years how dialogue about arts in the normal media how this has shrank how it shrinked so especially for these type of practices, there's not so much of a debate and that is not so good actually. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** Do you feel you have a language, enough of a language or languages to talk about the kind of work you are involved in and the people around you are involved in?\\ |
- | Bart: I have the feeling, because I have to write this intermediate report now, I have the feeling that the work often is ahead of me before I am capable of grasping it myself and even then, when I’ve grasped it, I am sure that the next week or two weeks after I will tend to reinterpret it but again, depending on how I am at that moment. But yeah, it’s very difficult to write yourself about these things. I’m trying to be as authentic as possible and not to think too much about these things when I’m writing it so, but the work we, yeah it is ahead always of my discourse about the work. I agree with people who said it’s tricky where an artist has to explain too much of himself, of what he is doing. It’s a very tricky thing, you have to my work labs you have to really do them before you can really know what is happening. | + | **Bart:** I have the feeling, because I have to write this intermediate report now, I have the feeling that the work often is ahead of me before I am capable of grasping it myself and even then, when I ve grasped it, I am sure that the next week or two weeks after I will tend to reinterpret it but again, depending on how I am at that moment. But yeah, it's very difficult to write yourself about these things. I m trying to be as authentic as possible and not to think too much about these things when I m writing it so, but the work we, yeah it is ahead always of my discourse about the work. I agree with people who said it's tricky where an artist has to explain too much of himself, of what he is doing. It's a very tricky thing, you have to my work labs you have to really do them before you can really know what is happening. |
- | People say why don’t you use these edible solar cells as a terminal, why don’t you spread it out, I don’t feel comfortable with it. Something tells me that it’s not about this an edible solar cell, it’s not about that, the making of this. Again, the silver bullet technology that will save mankind, I am not interested in that, sorry, don’t trust mankind enough for that.I think it’s just about this transformation that happens, this is what interests me. But this I just discovered only after having done this year’s of labs, I only felt I have to do these labs, I don’t know why, but I have to do, can not not do it. This is how it works. | + | People say why don t you use these edible solar cells as a terminal, why don t you spread it out, I don t feel comfortable with it. Something tells me that it's not about this an edible solar cell, it's not about that, the making of this. Again, the silver bullet technology that will save mankind, I am not interested in that, sorry, don t trust mankind enough for that.I think it's just about this transformation that happens, this is what interests me. But this I just discovered only after having done this year's of labs, I only felt I have to do these labs, I don t know why, but I have to do, can not not do it. This is how it works. |
- | Woman:Do you sometime compete or feel that you are part of a competition? | + | **Woman:** |
- | Bart: It’s difficult to avoid the feeling of competition, | + | **Bart:** It's difficult to avoid the feeling of competition, |
- | Woman: And is it a competition, | + | **Woman:** And is it a competition, |
- | Bart: Well it’s larger. I mean, for example, there’s a competition going on in Brussels now for finding an affordable flat. If you stand in a line with 70 people of which 10 of them are families with children then there is a blunt competition. Who has proof of paid work, who has proof of not having done anything stupid in his life? Okay, they can go in first. | + | **Bart:** Well it's larger. I mean, for example, there's a competition going on in Brussels now for finding an affordable flat. If you stand in a line with 70 people of which 10 of them are families with children then there is a blunt competition. Who has proof of paid work, who has proof of not having done anything stupid in his life? Okay, they can go in first. |
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** [inaudible]\\ |
- | Bart: No, I can tell you, we go out of that line. I don’t want to compete with people with children. So it’s on all levels. | + | **Bart:** No, I can tell you, we go out of that line. I don t want to compete with people with children. So it's on all levels. |
- | Woman: Do you consider your work or artistic practice political in any way? | + | **Woman:** Do you consider your work or artistic practice political in any way?\\ |
- | Bart: | + | **Bart:** Interesting. Political, it is political yes. It is about choices being made not make. It is about the individual and it is about the whole. So it is political and not consciously, |
- | Woman: What would you think slow art could mean? | + | **Woman:** What would you think slow art could mean?\\ |
- | Bart: What it could mean is that the result that a piece of work emerges very slowly, obeying to time patterns that are far away from human, or maybe more like invisible time schemes and patterns. For example, natural patterns and that throughout time the work emerges and this time can be one year, it can be 10 years. I have worked in India that is not I cannot see it myself because how I sow it because of the movement of the Brahmaputra river in the north of India. Only because of the movement of this river on an old abandoned ferry, my work is being made and the work is aesthetically changing all the time. And its relation to the city is changing all the time but this really is only visible over time and I don’t control this and not controlling it is not a pre-condition but in this case I don’t control it and don’t even have the budget now to ask someone to visualize the movement but this is an example I think of slow work. | + | **Bart:** What it could mean is that the result that a piece of work emerges very slowly, obeying to time patterns that are far away from human, or maybe more like invisible time schemes and patterns. For example, natural patterns and that throughout time the work emerges and this time can be one year, it can be 10 years. I have worked in India that is not I cannot see it myself because how I sow it because of the movement of the Brahmaputra river in the north of India. Only because of the movement of this river on an old abandoned ferry, my work is being made and the work is aesthetically changing all the time. And its relation to the city is changing all the time but this really is only visible over time and I don t control this and not controlling it is not a pre-condition but in this case I don t control it and don t even have the budget now to ask someone to visualize the movement but this is an example I think of slow work. |
- | Woman: Is it, now you mentioned the time aspect, | + | **Woman:** Is it, now you mentioned the time aspect, |
Bart: Yeah. | Bart: Yeah. | ||
- | Woman: is it for you mainly about time, slow art? | + | **Woman:** is it for you mainly about time, slow art?\\ |
- | Bart: No, no it’s not only time, no. In my case it’s related to space, place and time. These three together creates the aspect of slowness. I think, yeah, and it can happen in the digital world as well. It can be very constructed, | + | **Bart:** No, no it's not only time, no. In my case it's related to space, place and time. These three together creates the aspect of slowness. I think, yeah, and it can happen in the digital world as well. It can be very constructed, |
- | Woman: You are writing within the open house process a slow manifesto. | + | **Woman:** You are writing within the open house process a slow manifesto. |
Bart: Mm hmm. | Bart: Mm hmm. | ||
- | Woman: Do you think it’s a good idea? Is it necessary? | + | **Woman:** Do you think it's a good idea? Is it necessary?\\ |
- | Bart: But I mean when I was reading already the short description, | + | **Bart:** But I mean when I was reading already the short description, |
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+ | **Woman: | ||
+ | **Bart: | ||
- | Woman: | + | **Woman:** Okay so I would like to thank you for the interview. |
- | Bart: Yeah, I’m sorry that I have to give examples of things that I know, but I think it’s the only grounded thing I can say about this but when I see what I said before that for my work lab the test where food is the major component the very slow processes involved and also people tell me afterwards that it’s only that makes them understand what this actually is about. I don’t explain why or what from whatsoever. I give some context I give some tools and in the end they have some understanding apparently or they I don’t even know if it’s correct or not. That’s probably not so important but I do know that this slowly working is very important.I was invited to show my thing, | + | |
- | Woman: Okay so I would like to thank you for the interview. |